Episode 2
Special Guest- Bill Nelson
In this episode we visit with Bill Nelson, a true icon and legend of British Music.
Bill’s musical selections are like a time capsule of his life and fascinating music career. He takes us through five significant tracks, each representing a pivotal chapter in his musical evolution—from his childhood memories of saxophonist Freddie Gardner to the electrifying sounds of Duane Eddy that ignited his passion for guitar. What’s truly special is how he organizes his selections chronologically, allowing us to experience his soundtrack in real-time.
We’ll explore the influences that have guided him throughout his impressive career and how his commitment to artistic integrity has kept his creativity alive. So, get comfortable and prepare to explore the unique and fascinating stories with Bill Nelson about the music that forms the soundtrack of his life. If you’ve ever wondered how music weaves itself into the lives and inspiration of your favourite artists, this episode is a must-listen!
Takeaways:
- The music we grow up with profoundly shapes our creativity and artistic expression.
- Bill Nelson shares how his childhood music experiences sparked his lifelong passion for creating.
- Each song selected by Bill Nelson represents a significant chapter in his musical journey.
- Bill's exploration of various musical styles showcases how eclectic influences can shape a unique sound.
Links referenced in this episode:
Episode Playlists
Apple Music
https://music.apple.com/ca/playlist/treasure-island-discs-episode-1-bill-nelson/pl.u-aZb0qG7IVK6Pbp
Transcript
Welcome to Treasure Island Discs.
Speaker A:Get ready to set sail with your host, Jeff Moffat, as we dive deep into the stories behind the music, one Treasure island disc at a time.
Speaker B:Hi, I'm Jeff Moffat and welcome to Treasure Island Discs.
Speaker B:We've got a great show lined up for you this week.
Speaker B:Our guest is one of the most innovative, original and creative forces in music.
Speaker B:It's the legendary Bill Nelson.
Speaker B:He's, of course, widely known and recognized for his work as the founder and leader of Bebop Deluxe, but there is so much more to this artist.
Speaker B:His body of work is extensive, and he has always pushed the boundaries of style, possibility, and creativity through his music.
Speaker B:In today's episode, you'll hear him talk in detail about his life, his approach to writing, and what has and still inspires him creatively.
Speaker B:So the format of the show revolves around our guests selecting five songs or artists that they feel best define the soundtrack of their lives.
Speaker B:Needless to say, it's not an easy task to narrow it down to such a short list.
Speaker B:And Bill and I talk about this in the interview, as you'll hear, but he did a masterful job of choosing some excellent music to share with our listeners.
Speaker B:What makes this episode especially powerful, though, is how Bill chose to structure his five selections in chronological order, each one representing a key chapter in his life.
Speaker B:He starts from the very first song he remembers hearing as a child growing up in Northern England, to the records that sparked his love of guitar, and finally to the music that influenced him as a songwriter and a more experimental artist.
Speaker B:After Bebop Deluxe, the way he presents his selections allows us to walk through the soundtrack of his life in real time.
Speaker B:I have such a tremendous amount of respect for this man as an artist, but also because of the way he has been committed his whole career to making the music that he wanted to make without any regard for following the pack, chasing hits or commercial gain.
Speaker B:For him, it was and always is about the art.
Speaker B:It's a rare quality and he's a truly unique, thoughtful and talented artist who, through a lengthy, diverse and impressive career, has never lost his love or passion for creating.
Speaker B:And just before we jump into the interview, a reminder that we have a lot of great artists lined up for the show in the coming weeks and months.
Speaker B:So hit the follow button to stay up to date on upcoming episodes.
Speaker B:You can also find us on Instagram treasureislanddiscs and we'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on this show and any artists that you'd love to hear on an upcoming episode.
Speaker B:We've Also included links in the show notes for where you can learn more about Bill Nelson.
Speaker B:And for your listening pleasure, we have a complete playlist of the songs from today's show as well as some highlights from Bill's career.
Speaker B:Great to have you along with us as we talk with Bill Nelson about his musical journey and the soundtrack of his life.
Speaker C:Bill, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker B:In Treasure Island Discs.
Speaker C:I know our listeners are going to enjoy the conversation very much.
Speaker C:It's wonderful to have the opportunity to speak with you about not only the songs that we're going to talk about, but your formative years, where you grew up and what the environment was like for you as a young person figuring out your place in the world at that time.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I was born in Wakefield, which is a town in the West Riding of Yorkshire.
Speaker A:And my parents were both very occupied with musical things as well as their ordinary work.
Speaker A:My father played saxophone, had his own big band.
Speaker A:It wasn't fully professional, it was semi professional.
Speaker A:And he met my mother when she was in a tap dancing troupe.
Speaker A:And so music meant a lot to both of them.
Speaker A:And I grew up in a household that actually was my, my grandma's house.
Speaker A:My mum and dad didn't have a house of their own at that point.
Speaker A: ld that had been built in the: Speaker A:And he built Marriott's Buildings for some of his workers to live there.
Speaker A: But I was born in: Speaker A:And it was just ordinary people living in that tenement block.
Speaker A:So it was a very sort of basic beginning start to my life.
Speaker A:There was no electricity in the place, it was all gas light, there was no central heating or anything, just open fireplaces.
Speaker A:In fact, there was no bathroom or toilet inside, it's an outside toilet.
Speaker A:So it was almost like a Victorian life there.
Speaker A:And I lived there until I was three and then my parents got a modern flat, Armour Council estate called East Moore Estate and we moved there to a brand new house.
Speaker A:And then, you know, most of my school years were spent living there with my parents and that's sort of when I was about 10 years old when I first got involved with the guitar.
Speaker C:Was there always music in your house?
Speaker A:There was, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean even, you know, right from the beginning before we moved to that place, at my grandma's house there was a Windup gramophone.
Speaker A:And my father had a collection of.
Speaker A:Of old 78 records.
Speaker A:One of the ones that he had was by a saxophonist called Freddie Gardner.
Speaker A:And this was a track called Body and Soul.
Speaker A:And my dad really liked this guy's playing.
Speaker A:And his own muffin's own playing was very much influenced by Freddy Gardner's style.
Speaker A:So when, you know, when.
Speaker A:When I was incredibly young, one and two years old, I would hear this record being played in my grandma's house.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, at one point, I think I was about probably three, just before we moved, I tried to put the record on.
Speaker A:On one of the gramophone up.
Speaker A:Yeah, I accidentally broke the record, which didn't go down very well.
Speaker A:But that's the first.
Speaker A:That's the first recollection I've got of hearing music.
Speaker A:Was hearing that record.
Speaker C:Yeah, did.
Speaker A:As a.
Speaker C:As a child, did you just feel kind of being exposed to that and listening to that, did you.
Speaker C:Were you drawn to music, almost intuitive?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:Looking back, you know, it was something that felt natural and right to me.
Speaker A:I mean, my dad did try to teach me to play the saxophone when I was 8 years old.
Speaker A:And because he could read music, he started from that point of view trying to teach me to read music.
Speaker A:And for some reason, I just couldn't make that connection between those black dots on the page and sounds in my head, you know, so he kind of gave up on me.
Speaker A:He thought, oh, he's ever going to be a musician, you know, he can't grasp this at all.
Speaker A:But it was a little later when I was, you know, 9 or 10 years old.
Speaker A:My younger brother had been given a plastic toy guitar for Christmas, and he didn't bother with it.
Speaker A:And I messed around on it and managed to work out the Third man theme from the movie the Third Man.
Speaker A:And dad heard this and said, okay, let's get you a guitar.
Speaker A:And he got me a secondhand arch top guitar.
Speaker A:And that's, you know, that's part of how I got going.
Speaker C:And then did you at that point get formal lessons or did you basically learn on your own?
Speaker A:No, I didn't have any lessons.
Speaker A:I mean, my dad showed me.
Speaker A:My dad, besides playing sax, he used to play the banjo bit as well, and ukulele.
Speaker A:So he showed me three ukulele records.
Speaker A:The toy guitar actually had four strings and was more like a ukulele than a guitar.
Speaker A:And so I learned those.
Speaker A:Those three chords, ukulele chords.
Speaker A:But other than that, it was a matter of sitting down with the record player and putting a 45 on a slower speed and.
Speaker A:And trying to pick out the notes that were being played.
Speaker A:I could find them on the guitar.
Speaker A:I mean, one of the first things I heard that really struck me for guitar was a track by playing Eddie called Because They're Young.
Speaker A:I just love the sound of It.
Speaker A:And I can remember when I was around 10, my mother went and bought the single for me from a shop in town.
Speaker A:And I used to play it in my bedroom and I made cardboard guitars that looked like Dwayne Eddy's guitar.
Speaker C:Oh, I love it.
Speaker A:So I could stand in front of a mirror and mime to the, to the record.
Speaker A:So that was a powerful sort of inspiration to.
Speaker C:Did you put your first band together by the time you were like 12 years old?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, we were.
Speaker A:School.
Speaker A:We had a school band.
Speaker A:You know, it was, it was.
Speaker A:I'd met a friend at school who was about the same stage as I was learning, you know, very rudimentary, simple things.
Speaker A:But, but we, we became pals and we used to chat about music and guitars and he had a lot of albums by the Ventures and so on and, and.
Speaker A:And I had a lot of Shadow stuff and we had another friend who had a drum kit.
Speaker A:So the three of us put a band together.
Speaker A:We were called.
Speaker A:First of all, we were called the Strangers.
Speaker A:Then we changed it to the Cosmonauts.
Speaker A:You know, we played at the school's Christmas concert party.
Speaker A:And that, that was, you know, quite a revelation to stand.
Speaker A:The first time I ever played in front of any kind of an audience was there at school thing.
Speaker A:And of course, you know, several of the girls came and wanted to talk to us after.
Speaker A:This is a good thing, you know, I'll have to start practicing more, you know.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And playing music like the Shadows and, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:Was that sort of what your playlist looked like?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, when this friend of mine that was playing guitar, same time as me at school, we also like the Ventures.
Speaker A:I can remember he and I, he came down to my parents house and we sat in my bedroom with two guitars and we both knew the chords to Walk Out Loud.
Speaker A:So we were both playing the chords to the song together, both in unison.
Speaker A:And then I suddenly got the idea, hang on a minute, you play the course.
Speaker A:And that moment in time I became a lead guitarist and my friend became a written guitarist.
Speaker A:That's how it worked out.
Speaker C:So as you went into the next phase of your career, did you know or did you feel that, look, this could be my career and I'm Passionate about this.
Speaker C:I love it enough that I really want to make this my, my vocation.
Speaker C:Did you have a moment like that?
Speaker A:Strange, because that part of the world where I lived in nobody any ambition to, to become a professional musician.
Speaker A:Amongst my generation it was something that happened to people who lived in London.
Speaker A:They got record deals, they did this, that the other.
Speaker A:But we were in a.
Speaker A:We were in a kind of a vacuum really.
Speaker A:And so the only hope anybody had was just to play local gigs in pubs and working men's clubs and so on.
Speaker A:So it just seemed an impossible thing.
Speaker A:It probably crossed my mind that it would be nice to do that, but it seemed literally impossible for somebody, you know, in Wakefield to do so.
Speaker A:I, you know, for.
Speaker A:For quite a few years as my mobility developed on the guitar, I was in different local bands.
Speaker A:Some I joined that were already formed, some I formed myself.
Speaker A:So there was a succession of bands that, that played around the area and that was kind of the best I thought it could be at that time I became an art student.
Speaker A:I'd always had a facility for drawing and painting and I studied fine art at Wakefield Art School.
Speaker A:But at the same time I was playing with the bands in the evenings and at weekends.
Speaker A:And my future plan at that point was a dream again to become perhaps a painter or at least a teacher of painting, which was a more practical solution than starving in a garret somewhere.
Speaker A:My dad got ill, had to stop work.
Speaker A:So after four years at our college I got a day job working as a local government officer which was incredibly boring job but it helped bring money in the family.
Speaker A:I kept the bounds going.
Speaker A:At that point in time I actually met someone in Wakefield who had a homemade recording studio.
Speaker A:It was basically a bedroom with a tape recorder.
Speaker A:And I recorded an album called Northern Dream.
Speaker A:And then I also had a band just prior to that called Global Village which was a three piece kind of psychedelic blues rock band.
Speaker A:But when I came to record Normal Dream, that was the first batch of songs I'd ever seriously sat down to write.
Speaker A:And we just made 250 copies I think of that were pressed up and that then got in the hands of John Peel, the dj, famous DJ who's gone now but he played both sides of the album on air on his program, BBC program and EMI Records.
Speaker A:One of the A and R people there happened to be listening to Peel's program and heard the album being played and then got in touch with me and wanted to re record the album with sort of session musicians and asked me to go down to EMI's headquarters in London and have a chat with them.
Speaker A:And I just, at that point in time, I just put the first lineup of Bebop Tilots together.
Speaker A:We were literally two weeks old.
Speaker A:So knowing that I had this chance to go down to talk about, you know, EMI signing me, I took a demo.
Speaker A:We made a quick demo of a couple of songs and took that down to the EMI's headquarters and played it to them.
Speaker A:Said, look, you know, Roland and Dreams, a couple of years old now, and I'm doing this and I'd like you to consider this.
Speaker A:And then listen.
Speaker A:They said, well, you've only been together a couple weeks.
Speaker A:Let's give you two or three months and we'll come up to see you play live.
Speaker A:So that happened.
Speaker A:They came to see us and by that time we built up a good local following.
Speaker A:We did a gig in Leeds at a pub called the Staging Post and the place was packed out because we got this following of younger people who were really into what we were doing.
Speaker A:And the EMI guys came up and they had a listen and afterwards they said, no, we don't, don't think the band's up to it, but we'll still sign you as a solo artist.
Speaker A:The band were my friends.
Speaker A:In fact, the, the rhythm guitarist in the band was the guy that I'd met at school when I was, you know, 10 years old, right?
Speaker A:I said, no, they're my friends, you know, and I'm not dumping them, you know, so it's a band or nothing.
Speaker A:So they said, okay, well we'll see you again in a few months and see what we can do.
Speaker A:So anyway, what happened eventually was we landed a gig at the Marqueen Club in Warder street in London, which was the famous club for blues and jazz and rock.
Speaker A:And we were supporting a band called String Driven Thing there.
Speaker A:And we went down really well with the London audience, which the EMI people had been skeptical about, wondering whether we would mean anything outside of the north of England where we would play.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:We went down really well with this audience in the Marquee Club and EMI were there EMI guys, and they came backstage after and said, okay, okay, we'll do a deal.
Speaker A:Come and see us tomorrow.
Speaker A:And we signed a deal with emi.
Speaker C:Everything sort of happened very organically, clearly, and, and, and I, I'm not going to say it happened fast because there's so many years behind that where you're, you're learning your craft and you're paying your dues.
Speaker C:But as you transition to that next chapter with bebop, were you.
Speaker C:Did you feel prepared for everything that was going to come at you in the next 10 years?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Nothing?
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, was.
Speaker A:It was still.
Speaker A:Even though we were suddenly, we got a record deal, we were going to make our first album, I was serious about that, you know, I really wanted that to be good.
Speaker A:Beyond that, it was still.
Speaker A:We still had that attitude of this is just fun.
Speaker A:Don't let it get to you, go to your head.
Speaker A:It might not last long, you know.
Speaker A:So yeah, it was, it was, it was fairly hard to go lucky at this.
Speaker C:And did it stay that way?
Speaker A:No, it didn't.
Speaker A:Because emi, although they had agreed finally to sign the whole band, they were still not convinced by the other guys in the band.
Speaker A:And they kept having words with me and saying, look, you really need to find some better musicians to play with you.
Speaker A:And I was, you know, very reluctant.
Speaker A:But one of the first things we did when we were signed to EMI was we were put on tour with a band called Cockney Rebel, which was led by a guy called Steve Harley.
Speaker A:And Cockney Rebel had a number one hit at that time and were pulling fairly large audiences around the country.
Speaker A:So we were as a support, they were on EMI as well.
Speaker A:So EMI put us as a support band to Cockney Rebel.
Speaker A:And during that tour I could see what EMI were getting at because Cockney Rebel were a lot kind of slicker and a bit more professional and tighter, I think thought.
Speaker A:So at the end of that tour I decided I.
Speaker A:I'd take I advice and try and find some stronger musicians to work with.
Speaker A:And the difficult thing then was saying to the guys in the in be that, you know, I needed to move on and that was.
Speaker A:That was a hard thing to do.
Speaker C:That would be a tough conversation.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I mean every, apart from one person in the band, the other guys understood and they said actually we expected it.
Speaker A:You knew we weren't sort of perfect for it.
Speaker A:And one guy during the bass player Rob Brian, was very unhappy about it.
Speaker A:There was a bit of friction, you know, but then I had to try and put another band together.
Speaker A:And as it happened, two members of Cockney Rebel had quit Cockney Rebel at the end of that tour as well.
Speaker A:And one was Mel Marine James who was the keyboard player Incognit Rebel and the other was Paul Jeffries who was the bass player.
Speaker A:So they decided, they decided to play with me.
Speaker A:So Milton, the keyboard player, Neuro drummer from Birmingham, he played with in the past called Simon Fox and he said, you Know, I know this guy Simon Fox, he's a good drummer.
Speaker A:Shall we get him in and try him out?
Speaker A:So Simon came and auditioned and I thought was absolutely perfect.
Speaker A:So we went out with that lineup which was Simon, myself, Milton, Liam Jones on keyboards and Paul Jeffries on bass.
Speaker A:But something didn't quite gel.
Speaker A:It wasn't a personality thing.
Speaker A:Nice guys.
Speaker A:Something didn't feel right about the keyboard player and the bass player.
Speaker A:So after we only did a few gigs and they were quiet gigs, just sort of setting out how the band would work together.
Speaker A:So at the end of a couple of gigs I said no, this isn't working, I need to look elsewhere.
Speaker A:So I said I want to keep Simon.
Speaker A:So I was Simon and myself then needing a bass player and a Debo player.
Speaker A:And we auditioned bass players in London.
Speaker A:We tried half a dozen bass players until Charlie Tulahi turned up and soon as he first few notes he played and it's absolutely just perfect for the band.
Speaker C:You know, like you just knew right away he was the guy.
Speaker A:Yeah and just his whole demeanor when he played, he enjoyed playing and you know, a big grin on his face, be bopping around and his playing was spot on.
Speaker A:There were no sort of nothing funky about it.
Speaker A:It was superb.
Speaker A:So then we had a bass player but we had no keyboard player.
Speaker A:Well, we went out and did some gigs as a three piece.
Speaker A:In fact we recorded the second Bebop Deluxe album Futurama with just the three of us.
Speaker A:But we were looking for a keyboard player all the time and different people came to audition for us but nobody really was right until we met Andy Clark.
Speaker A:And Andy had been in a band called Mother's Pride and Andy was a bit of a prog rock guy.
Speaker A:When we first met him he sort of, he was dressed in an African coat and had hair down to his, his waist basically.
Speaker A:And you know the image was completely not what I was looking for for the band.
Speaker A:But yeah, his playing was, was really, really good.
Speaker A:So we said okay, you can come into the band but you've got to get a haircut and get some different clothes for stageway.
Speaker A:So he was a bit reluctant to do that sort of thing but he did and you know we had.
Speaker A:Suddenly we had the four piece band that went on to record the next album we did was Sunburst Finish.
Speaker A:Probably the most commercially successful of the albums.
Speaker C:Did you feel at that point that you like you had your people and that you had all of the requisite players in, in their seats that you could re really realize your vision for Bebop?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, the thing was that everybody in the band had slightly different tastes in music.
Speaker A:I mean, Charlie loved reggae and kind of funk and a bit of soul.
Speaker A:Andy was into like, King Crimson and elp, you know, sort of Rick Waitman keyboard type, and then was into the who and Keith Moon and that sort of, you know, British, right, rock, pop thing.
Speaker A:And I was into all of it.
Speaker A:I've always had incredibly wide tastes in music.
Speaker A:So I had this band that I felt I could.
Speaker A:I had this idea that we could pull in all kinds of music into the mix.
Speaker A:I didn't think of it in terms of being a postmodern band.
Speaker A:That's what it was.
Speaker A:It was a postmodern band that could reference different periods and styles of music and mix them up together and make something that, you know, reflected the whole history of popular music or whatever, without.
Speaker A:Without actually radically copying any of it.
Speaker A:You know, it would argue him to that.
Speaker A:So that was how the vision I had for the band.
Speaker C:When you look back on it now, do you feel a sense of pride that, you know, what you accomplished during that period and with that band?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I do, I do.
Speaker A:I mean, I am often very.
Speaker A:I don't know whether the dismissive is the right term, sort of.
Speaker A:I've often said that I don't have a rear view mirror.
Speaker A:I only have a windscreen to look forward to.
Speaker A:And so I.
Speaker A:I hardly ever listen to the.
Speaker A:Well, not just to Bebop, but even to some of my more recent solo albums.
Speaker A:Once they're out there, I'm more interested in working on the next project rather than looking back.
Speaker A:So I'll leave whatever.
Speaker A:Whatever on the trail is left to take care of itself.
Speaker A:I'm not that sort of keen to be tied to it, you know, I.
Speaker C:Think one of the things that.
Speaker C:One of my observations about you and your career is that, for example, after Bebop had disbanded, you made, I would say, an artistic change of direction to a certain extent.
Speaker C:With the Red Noise project and the Sound On Sound album in particular.
Speaker C:Where there were elements of new wave, there was elements of punk in there.
Speaker C:There was obviously a real creative use of synths.
Speaker C:And I think I will say this to you.
Speaker C:I think it's an outstanding album.
Speaker C:I thought it was an outstanding album then and I still think it is today.
Speaker C:Maybe more so, looking back.
Speaker C:But it was also an album, I think, that was ahead of its time.
Speaker C:Could you talk a little bit about your approach to writing and recording of that album and how that was a landmark in the Next part of your career?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of the things at the tail end of Bebop Deluxe, I actually wanted to move on.
Speaker A:I had this urge to try and incorporate more electronics into the sound and to make the guitar more of a textural part than a front line part, if you like.
Speaker A:And I talked to the band's manager of the record company and I said, look, I need to do something different.
Speaker A:And they said, you know, things are going really well.
Speaker A:You should continued dbop.
Speaker A:And eventually they said, look, we'll compromise, give us one more Bebop Deducts album and then you can make this change.
Speaker A:Didn't know what that change exactly was going to be at that time.
Speaker A:I agreed to make one more album and we did the Drastic Plastic album, which was the last studio album and release.
Speaker A:And that was a kind of a precursor to.
Speaker A:To Red Noise because I got.
Speaker A:I got a mini Moog at home and I got one of the first synth guitars.
Speaker A: agstrom and It's called Patch: Speaker A:And you could this guitar into a mini Moog and play the Minimoog from the neck of the.
Speaker A:So I did some stuff on the classic Plastic album using that track called Electrical Language.
Speaker A:Yeah, the synth guitar on it.
Speaker A:And then there's another track which was, I think a piece out of a single from there called Futurist Manifesto.
Speaker A:So it.
Speaker A:That was kind of where I was wanting to go, but I still had to keep something of the Bebop thing going.
Speaker A:So it was a kind of a hybrid thing.
Speaker A:But then when that was delivered and done with, I then started to think about forming and take those ideas further.
Speaker A:And Red Noise was what was the result.
Speaker A:And the sort of initial concept for the Sound On Sound album was to try and present a near future kind of scenario of a dystopian world.
Speaker A:And that loose sort of concept helped me to come up with some of the ideas for the songs.
Speaker A:And yeah, that's how I can always.
Speaker C:Come about when I think one of the things that's clear to me is that you've never been an artist who's afraid to challenge the status quo or to push kind of beyond the conventions of the mainstream.
Speaker C:And I think it's a kind of a recurring theme throughout your work where you have a bit of a fearless mindset and you are clearly going to go in the directions that you feel support the integrity of you as an artist.
Speaker C:Were you trusting that your audience would find you and you were going to do what you did regardless?
Speaker A:Yeah, well, yes, I hoped.
Speaker A:I hoped, obviously, because, you know, the only.
Speaker A:I mean, it was never.
Speaker A:It was never about massive fame.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Huge amounts of money.
Speaker A:It was always about creating the music.
Speaker A:A simple joy of creating music was the driving, driving force.
Speaker A:And it was probably a bit too idealistic when I was younger, but that's how it was, you know, and it was kind of do it, and if it all falls apart, then it all falls apart.
Speaker A:Just do it.
Speaker A:Just try and do it.
Speaker A:See what happens.
Speaker A:And that was that, you know, that was a real motivation all the time.
Speaker A:And I mean, to have been times when things were difficult, particularly with management problems and not getting paid money from record companies and so on.
Speaker A:But I never.
Speaker A:Somehow, I've never needed to go back to a day job of any kind.
Speaker A:I've always managed to keep enough happening with the music that it sustained.
Speaker A:Sustained me making more.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker A:That was the driving force.
Speaker A:I didn't want to stop making music or.
Speaker C:And you stayed very convicted to that.
Speaker C:Even in our own lives.
Speaker C:Going through it, as, you know, at different points in your life where you have responsibilities as a parent, a family and people around you, you've got certain points in your career, you've had people that depended on you for their paycheck, so you have competing responsibilities.
Speaker C:But even through that, you manage to see your way through it and stay true to your principles.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, the thing about, you know, responsibility.
Speaker A:I mean, looking back now, you know, I can see times when.
Speaker A:When I couldn't, you know, now I would be very sort of feeling guilty about some of it.
Speaker A:You don't always take into account or as much into account of other people's feelings as you.
Speaker A:You should do.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say I've ever been ruthless about it, but, you know, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think if you have a dream or a vision that you really love, you follow it wherever it leads.
Speaker A:Sometimes along the way, there are bound to be difficulties and confrontations and so on.
Speaker C:Bill, let's talk a little bit about creativity and your artistic philosophy.
Speaker C:In any creative endeavor, there's an element of channeling the muse and allowing inspiration to find you.
Speaker C:And I think you do that beautifully.
Speaker C:Can you talk a little bit about your own creative process?
Speaker C:Because your.
Speaker C:Your body of work is so extensive and you've never stopped creating.
Speaker C:So how do you find the inspiration?
Speaker A:Well, the actual, you know, methods of making music are many, and they vary from different from time to time.
Speaker A:For instance, when I.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:When I was still working in my day job and playing in the Evenings.
Speaker A:If I got an idea for some lyrics, I'd write the lyrics down at my desk job, take them home and then work out a song because I didn't have any other means of doing it whilst I was working other than I could jot lyrics down.
Speaker A:So lyrics often came first at that point.
Speaker A:With the last 30 years or so, it's more like I, I don't necessarily need to have an idea before I start.
Speaker A:It's like a painter making a mark on a blank canvas and he might put a color and a line and then look at it and think, I'll put that behind there and I'll put a blob there and then I'll turn that around there and see what happens.
Speaker A:So you start with, with another way to think of it.
Speaker A:It's like if you've got an empty house or an empty room, you put the carpet down first, right?
Speaker A:And you bring some furniture in and you move it around till it's comfortable and then you start decorating a bit with some lamps before you painting from the wall.
Speaker A:It's like that.
Speaker A:You just make a start.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter what, what.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be a specific thing.
Speaker A:It can be anything.
Speaker A:So sometimes I'll start just with a rhythm pattern, a drum pattern, or I'll start with a keyboard pad sound that I like the sound of.
Speaker A:And then you start working with that and gradually a song will start to take shape and emerge from it.
Speaker A:It's again, it's like I keep making these comparisons with, you know, visual artist, but a sculptor with a big stone and he just thinks inside that stone is a statue.
Speaker C:There's a Picasso quote where he says, to know what you're going to draw, you have to begin drawing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I, I, it's just like that.
Speaker A:And I record in my home studio.
Speaker A:I record every evening.
Speaker A:I just go up there and I have no idea what's going to emerge, right?
Speaker A:I just start doing it, making marks and, and just seeing what develops and then shaping it up.
Speaker A:And you know, when I've got a, a bit firmer grip on where it's going, I can then steer it a little bit more.
Speaker C:How have the tools of your trade changed over time?
Speaker C:Like has that changed how you approach your own writing to decay?
Speaker A:Yeah, the, the kind of my studio at the moment, it's only in a very small room, but it's a software based recording system like many people have.
Speaker A:But I still tend to use it almost like it's a tape recorder rather than cutting and pasting things.
Speaker A:So, you know, some people will.
Speaker A:They'll get a perfect take on a chorus and then they'll copy that chorus and paste it further along in the song.
Speaker A:If I make a mistake, rather than copying it from a part that I didn't make a mistake, I'll re record the mistake, I'll play it.
Speaker A:So I don't use sequence as much.
Speaker A:I try and play everything in real time, whether it be keyboards or guitar.
Speaker A:So I'm still trying to use an old school tape recorder approach to it.
Speaker A:I think that keeps it sounding a little bit more organic and less clinical.
Speaker A:But there are things that this system I'm using, which is called Cubase, it outstrips anything that you could do at Abbey Road in the facilities that it can give you.
Speaker A:And that is a massive change.
Speaker A:My past recording career.
Speaker C:Do you still approach the process with the same sense of excitement, for lack of a better word, every day when you go into the studio, do you feel that same sense of joy of creating?
Speaker A:Oh, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, the most exciting thing is a blank page, a blank canvas.
Speaker A:If you're a painter, you know, it's really exciting because, you know, and for me it's like it's not a piece of tape anymore because it's digital, you know, onto a hard drive.
Speaker A:But it's when you start, there you are, that's the exciting part.
Speaker A:I find the actual.
Speaker A:The process of making music is really the thing that gets me.
Speaker A:I enjoy that more than playing live, although I've retired from playing live.
Speaker A:But the actual process of creating the music is through the most joyous part of it for me.
Speaker A:Once the thing's done, that track finished, then that's it, you know.
Speaker C:Well, we should talk about your selections of the music that you've chosen today.
Speaker C:And I acknowledge that it is so hard when you reflect on coming down to five songs that you feel would best represent the soundtrack of your life.
Speaker C:And I knew if you and I had the opportunity to talk today that you would come up with some amazing selections and they'd be interesting, they'd be eclectic.
Speaker C:And what they would really do is provide a deeper understanding of you as a person and as a musician.
Speaker C:And I think the music that you selected today is just that.
Speaker C:So I'm really excited to talk about these tracks that you've chosen and the reasons why you chose them.
Speaker C:So I'll throw it over to you.
Speaker C:And what's your first track?
Speaker A:Freddie Gardner, and it's a track called Body and Sou.
Speaker C:Sam.
Speaker A:Basically this was the first piece of music I ever heard as an infant.
Speaker A:And my father, as I think I mentioned before, was a semi professional saxophone player and he based his style on Freddie Gardner.
Speaker A:And one of my dad's style pieces when he played with his band was Body and Soul.
Speaker A:And he basically, you know, he did a faithful copy of Freddie Gardner's version.
Speaker A:So I heard that as a very, very young child, probably 2 years old or something.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:The memory of it has stayed with me all these years, you know, as something that probably did ignite the first spark of musical appreciation that I ever had.
Speaker A:And also reminds me of my dad because I did hear him play in his band when I was about four or five.
Speaker A:He played for a friend, a friend of her mum and dad's had a silver wedding anniversary and it was at a place in Wakefield called the Unity hall.
Speaker A:And dad's band played for their wedding anniversary.
Speaker A:And I can remember my dad playing on the bandstand and he sounded just like Freddie Gardner sounded like the record.
Speaker A:And in fact, I had.
Speaker A:This is another thing which is strange.
Speaker A:I had at that time a little poly saxophone.
Speaker A:It was like a.
Speaker A:It was like a kazoo.
Speaker A:It didn't have any things you could press a play, but you could sing or home into it and it would make a noise like a kazoo.
Speaker A:And apparently my mother told me years and years ago at this particular silver wedding anniversary ball with my dad playing, I stood on a chair in front of the stage playing my kazoo saxophone along with.
Speaker A:Along with my dad at the age of probably three years old.
Speaker C:It's a very.
Speaker C:It's a beautiful tune.
Speaker C:It's a very melancholic tune as well, I would say.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it's been covered by lots of people.
Speaker A:I mean, you were saying about, you know, it's only five tracks, but, I mean, I could spend an entire day listing tracks that have meant an awful lot to me over the years.
Speaker A:And it was really hard to just choose five because, you know, you're missing out 100 of them.
Speaker A:Yeah, that one had to be in because it was.
Speaker A:It was the first, you know, the first start of my musical journey.
Speaker C:I think it's a beautiful selection and it's.
Speaker C:It clearly is a meaningful selection to you as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:How about number two?
Speaker A:Well, that's Dwayne Eddie's.
Speaker A:Because They're Young.
Speaker A:I'd been messing around on a toy guitar at home.
Speaker A:It was just a toy guitar, but there was a radio program, a BBC radio program, which used as A signature tune because they're young, by the way.
Speaker A:Eri.
Speaker A:And I just love the sound of the electric guitar.
Speaker A:I think it was probably the.
Speaker A:The first time I'd heard an electric guitar.
Speaker A:I don't know, maybe I had all the things, but the sound of that, that particular guitar just sounded amazing.
Speaker A:And I used to, you know, put.
Speaker A:Listen to this program every week because I knew that that track would be the theme tune.
Speaker A:And my mum noticed my enthusiasm for that track and I was off school with.
Speaker A:I think I had flu and I wasn't very well and she decided to go out and buy me the single to cheer me up.
Speaker A:And so I.
Speaker A:I had the single at home and I could play as often as I wanted.
Speaker A:Then without having to wait for the weekly radio show to hear it, you know, started investigating Toy Neddy and found that he got albums and saw pictures of him with.
Speaker A:With this bright orange red gretch guitar.
Speaker A:And so I started making cardboard bars I cut out of pieces of card and painted to look exactly like Dwayne Eddie sketch.
Speaker A:And they weren't even playable things, they were just flat, you know, visual representation.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker A:But then.
Speaker A:So I'd stand in front of my bedroom mirror and mime to test.
Speaker A:Very young.
Speaker A:But then ironically, in.
Speaker A:In more recent years, I.
Speaker A:I became friends with Wayne Eddie, which was an amazing thing because he was given an award.
Speaker A:I forget what it was.
Speaker A:A few years back now, he was given an award by Mojo magazine, which you may know, and it was the Icon award they gave him.
Speaker A:And they got in touch with me and said, look, we know you're a diphtherain from.
Speaker A:From when you start playing guitar.
Speaker A:Would you like to present him with this award?
Speaker A:So I went down to London and it was the main event of the evening.
Speaker A:There was also an awards, but the final award was the Icon Award, which I got to present to Dwayne.
Speaker A:And it was fantastic to meet him because he knew that I'd been mentioning him in different interviews and things seemed to be grateful for that.
Speaker A:I brought his name up and he was.
Speaker A:He turned out to be a really nice guy.
Speaker A:And I then did an interview for the American Guitar Player magazine.
Speaker A:I interviewed him for that and then he played in London.
Speaker A:I went to see him there and we were chatting a lot backstage.
Speaker A:Then he played in York and wanted me to play get up and play a number with him.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, that day I had to be somewhere else.
Speaker A:My brother had passed away and was having a bench dedicated to him in a sculpture park in Wakefield, so I couldn't get there for a rehearsal.
Speaker A:But I did get to see the show and meet him again afterwards.
Speaker A:And then we started corresponding and I heard from him last year around New Year time.
Speaker A:He always used to send me Christmas greetings and things and we exchanged emails and he said at the time, he said, I've got family over at the moment for me a year, so I've got to tell you, but I'll.
Speaker A:I'll be in touch soon, you know.
Speaker A:And then the next thing I knew, he'd passed away and he'd had.
Speaker A:He had cancer and he'd never mentioned it.
Speaker A:It kept it quiet.
Speaker A:So I was really broken up about that because it's an important part of my, you know, early influences.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So that selection brings up a lot of fond memories and I think at that point in your.
Speaker C:In your life is part of, you know, one of the huge reasons why you picked up the guitar and played the guitar like you played it was because of Dwayne Eddy.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean that was.
Speaker A:That really was the, you know, the initial driving force was one, you know, one thing.
Speaker A:I mean, I had, you know, pictures of Drawing Eddie on my bedroom wall and pictures of the Shadows and so on.
Speaker A:And I had no idea, being a pre teen thing, that I was going to have a chance of meeting any.
Speaker C:Of them because this segues beautifully into selection number three in a.
Speaker C:In a very kind of organic way.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, that's the Shadows and this particular track is called Midnight.
Speaker A:And, you know, it was a natural thing once you got into instrumental guitar music that you would also gravitate towards other artists that were doing that kind of style back then.
Speaker A:Very early 60s vocalists were never of any particular interest to me at that point in time.
Speaker A:I always felt the vocalist got in the way of the guitar.
Speaker A:So I really got into instrumental music and lots of other bands like the Ventures and so on.
Speaker A:But the Shadows were really.
Speaker A:They got big in the UK at that time and when I was still at school with this friend of mine, Ian Parkin, the guy that we were learning to play guitar together and we went to see the Shadows actually played in Wakefield at a cinema in Wakefield as part of a package show.
Speaker A:Usually these package shows that toured where you get about five different acts in the same show and they'd.
Speaker A:One particular would headline the show and the Shadows headlined this other show that had Lord Rockingham's 11 on and some other bands who have forgotten now.
Speaker A:But we went.
Speaker A:Ian Parkin and myself went to see the Shadows play at this cinema in Lightfield.
Speaker A:And when they came on, it was.
Speaker A:That was another kind of revelation.
Speaker A:It was the first time I felt the bass in my feet.
Speaker A:You know, the bass guitar sound vibrated the whole place.
Speaker A:You could feel the pulse of the bass in your feet.
Speaker A:And when the curtains opened, it.
Speaker A:Proscenium moved with curtains.
Speaker A:When they opened the curtains on the shadows, they were in darkness.
Speaker A:And you could just see three little red lights, one for each amplifier, showing that the amplifier was turned on.
Speaker A:And then they actually went into.
Speaker A:The first number they played was a Dwayne Eddy number called Shazam.
Speaker A:And as they started out with that number, the spotlight came on and went straight onto Hank Marvin's guitar.
Speaker A:And they had this red Fiesta, red Fender Stratocaster.
Speaker A:It was just like ice running down the back.
Speaker C:That is amazing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:The fact that you remember that in such great detail is amazing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it made such an impact, you know, and.
Speaker A:And again, it was.
Speaker A:It was another push.
Speaker A:It made me want to practice even more.
Speaker A:And, you know, I just wished I could be like that on a stage with a spotlight and a red Fender.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:It was a really important moment.
Speaker A:But one of the pieces I played was Midnight.
Speaker A:And I hadn't.
Speaker A:I hadn't heard that before for some reason.
Speaker A:And it was a.
Speaker A:It's a ballad track.
Speaker A:It was very similar in some ways to Santo and Johnny's Sleepwalk.
Speaker A:My friend Ian Parking, who's gone with me to see them, he actually heard the single that Midnight was the B side of.
Speaker A:I think the A side was probably FBI.
Speaker A:It was called FBI, but the B side was Midnight.
Speaker A:So he knew the tube.
Speaker A:And at school the next day, I used to say, what's wrong with me?
Speaker A:That song again, I really like it.
Speaker A:How does it go?
Speaker A:You know, we sold a tune.
Speaker C:Track number four is another amazing song and a different part of your life a few years down the road.
Speaker C:And like you were saying to me earlier this.
Speaker C:The selections that you've chosen fall into a chronological order.
Speaker C: total sense that it's the mid-: Speaker C:It is such a great track.
Speaker C:I'll let you introduce the song.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, the song is happening 10 years time ago by the Albert Spurts.
Speaker C:Meeting people along my way Seemingly I want one day of things that my dreaming always brings back 10 years time ago Situation.
Speaker A:Between the Shadows and this particular track, there is a host of other records I could have which would have taken up far too much time.
Speaker A:My introduction to, like, Chet Atkins on the guitar.
Speaker A:I had loads Of Chad Atkins albums when I was early teens.
Speaker A:Jazz Boys of Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, people like that.
Speaker A:And also from this era, where the Alberts were would be the early who stuff.
Speaker A:And other sort of freaky psych rock bands.
Speaker A:But this sort of wraps it all up in one track.
Speaker A:That kind of psychedelic era, pre psychedelic, really.
Speaker A:And has an amazing middle section which is quite abstract.
Speaker A:It sound devices and siren like guitar sound feedback.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:To me at the time, it just seemed like a widescreen Technicolor thing opening up in front of my eyes.
Speaker C:Was this the ultimate lineup of the Arbors, do you think?
Speaker A:I would say so.
Speaker A:I think it was, you know, their most interesting period, really.
Speaker A:There was such a lot of ideas being thrown into the mix.
Speaker A:It had moved on.
Speaker A:I mean, when they, you know, their earliest stuff was really kind of more blues oriented.
Speaker A:But this was really just.
Speaker A:It opened up other areas.
Speaker A:I mean, there'd been Things again.
Speaker A:Shapes of Things was a favorite track of mine when that came out, which was prior to this.
Speaker A:And Over, Under, Sideways, Down Again.
Speaker A:Beck's guitar was doing something new at that time.
Speaker A:With this particular combination of people in the band.
Speaker A:They really just sort of blew the jaws off, really, you know, I explored what was possible.
Speaker C:As we go to selection number five.
Speaker C:It is, I would say, best described as being a change of direction musically.
Speaker C:A beautiful selection.
Speaker C:And I'll let you talk a little bit about what this one means to you and.
Speaker C:And a little bit about the artist.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I've been interested in electronic music since I'm.
Speaker A:I was an art student.
Speaker A:In fact, I'd made a kind of a.
Speaker A:I'd made a soundtrack.
Speaker A:The college put on a play at.
Speaker A:The play was called Peer Gynt.
Speaker A:And I made a soundtrack for this play.
Speaker A:And I used some electronic sounds made not with synthesizers, but using found sounds and running them backwards.
Speaker A:Recording and then running the tape backwards.
Speaker A:So the Earth.
Speaker A:And I used some of John Cage's prepared piano techniques applied to the guitar.
Speaker A:For instance, putting pieces of metal between strings.
Speaker A:And then hitting the strings with mallets to make abstract sounds.
Speaker A:And recording them, speeding them up, slowing them down.
Speaker A:So I'd have an interest in avant garde electronica since the midsies.
Speaker A:And then I put into craft work in their early stages.
Speaker A:Prior to them becoming a successful popular band.
Speaker A:I'd always had that side interest in things electronic.
Speaker A:But at the same time I also had an interest in classical music.
Speaker A:Some of my favorite composers are 20th century composers like Debussy and Edward Elgar, Vaughan Williams and so on.
Speaker A:Ravel I come across this album by Tomita and to me, to a Japanese musician, and he done.
Speaker A:I think he'd done some albums before this one.
Speaker A:This album was called Snowflakes Are Dancing, and I like the title.
Speaker A:And it also.
Speaker A:It was pieces of music composed by Debussy done on modular synthesizers.
Speaker A:And at that time, to make a piece of music using this kind of complexity and beauty, using the module of synth was not an easy thing to do.
Speaker A:It took hours and hours of work.
Speaker A:And I bought the album and I absolutely fell in love with it.
Speaker A:It was just so.
Speaker A:So beautiful, the whole thing.
Speaker A:Debussy's compositions are fabulous anyway.
Speaker A:To hear them rendered with, you know, modular synthesizers in this way added another dimension, an ethereal dimension.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I absolutely love Albert and that.
Speaker A:That's again, another in terms of direct influence.
Speaker A:But it inspired me to explore similar kind of realms, if you like.
Speaker C:As you reflect on these selections, obviously there's different emotions that come from each of them.
Speaker C:They.
Speaker C:They have different places in your life.
Speaker C:Was the process of going through this joyful bliss it nostalgic.
Speaker C:How did you feel trying to find five.
Speaker C:Five selections?
Speaker A:Well, it was difficult just finding five, you know, leaving out so many things that also have been equally important.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But I think.
Speaker A:I think these five have.
Speaker A:They show sort of the.
Speaker A:The major forces on my own music, which are.
Speaker A:I think, you know, with.
Speaker A:With the Freddy Gardner track, it's melody and, you know, composition.
Speaker A:With Dwayne Any in the Shadows, it's.
Speaker A:It's that electric guitar sound that kicked off the whole thing, you know, in terms of guitar.
Speaker A:With the Arbors thing, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's my psychedelic rock teenage years, you know, and with.
Speaker A:With.
Speaker A:To me to it.
Speaker A:It just brings the classical and electronic together and they're all.
Speaker A:They're all key to what I do now in some way.
Speaker A:Artist.
Speaker A:It's like these things, you absorb them and then they.
Speaker A:They like, sink to the bottom and they become subliminal.
Speaker A:And you don't.
Speaker A:You don't reference them directly or intentionally, but there's something about them, something in the character that informs whatever you do yourself as an artist.
Speaker A:And, you know, if you look hard enough, you can.
Speaker A:You can sense that that's where those things are coming from.
Speaker C:Are you still excited about.
Speaker C:About new music?
Speaker C:Do you have any favorites that you're listening to these days, these last couple.
Speaker A:Of years or so?
Speaker A:More, I guess.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'm so saturated with my own music.
Speaker A:I have.
Speaker A:I hardly.
Speaker A:I'm aware of anything.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:That's going on.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Strange.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I used to be.
Speaker A:I used to be totally on top of all the, whatever was happening.
Speaker A:If I listen to music other than what I'm working on myself now, it tends to be often music that's made before I was born.
Speaker A:You know, I've still got a soft spot for old style rock and roll, you know, L.
Speaker A:Haley or early Elvis or something like that.
Speaker A:And I like western swing music very much as well.
Speaker A:Bob Wills and these Texas Playboys and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:It's kind of music that I think because it's so.
Speaker A:So apart from what I do, I can listen to it in a different way.
Speaker C:I am so grateful that you have taken the time today to talk to us, to share all of the great music that you selected for our listeners.
Speaker C:And I'm.
Speaker C:I'm grateful that we've had the opportunity to talk about them in detail and it's given great insight and a glimpse into your career in a kind of a different way.
Speaker C:And I want to thank you so much for being with us today.
Speaker C:It's been a wonderful conversation and it's been great to chat with you.
Speaker A:Thanks very much.
Speaker A:It's been a great pleasure.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:And that brings us to the end of this episode of Treasure Island Discs.
Speaker B:A huge thank you to Bill Nelson for taking the time to share his music, his stories, and so many deep personal reflections on life and creativity.
Speaker B:If you enjoyed the episode, be sure to follow us.
Speaker B:TreasureIslandDiscs and wherever you get your podcasts, you can grab the playlist and the links for today's episode in the show notes as well.
Speaker B:Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker B:I'm Jeff Moffat.
Speaker B:See you next time.
